Instructor: Rainsong
Date: November 18, 2017 (Saturday)
Rainsong
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
Rainsong
Welcome to another seminar here at the social club. Our topic tonight is the borrowing, copying, and imprinting of files.
Aureum Animus
:waves:
Zephyr Cloudrunner
files?
Rainsong
Not on computer drives, though.
Rainsong
In this case, we’re talking about using telepathy to “copy and paste” mental files.
ceahhettan
waves, settles in.
Rainsong
The topic came up last week, because of the Cantrip class.
Rainsong
A couple things to note before we get started:
Rainsong
This is not a beginner-level skill-set. Newbies are welcome to attend the class, but don’t be surprised if you run into problems trying this out.
Rainsong
For reasons that will quickly become obvious, we won’t be practicing this skill-set in this class.
Rainsong
Probably.
Rainsong
This activity is extremely intimate, and attempting it without the full consent of the other party will – at the very least – piss them off thoroughly. How they express such pissed-off-ness will vary widely.
Rainsong
Further to that last point: If you’re a magic-user of Crowley-an tendencies, you’ll be familiar with the idea of “Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.”
ceahhettan
Rain: I can dredge up something and put it front and center if people would like to practice.
ceahhettan
I’m unlikely to bite anyone if they don’t go poking further.
Rainsong
There are other non-Crowley types with similar views. I’m not going to argue the point.
Rainsong
Ceah: if you and other feel like practicing after the lecture, that’d be great.
Rainsong
…Just be aware that the Law in question does not absolve you of the consequences of your actions.
Forest_Horns
It was interesting to look into but couldn’t get it to work properly… and it works on radically different principles than my own stuff xD
Rainsong
Pulling something by force out of an unwilling person’s mind is an absolutely brutal form of interrogation… and if that person kills you in retaliation, they aren’t over-reacting or violating your right to do whatever the hell you feel like. It would be a perfectly reasonable response in consequence to your actions.
Rainsong
Forest Horns: Comparing approaches can be fun, though, even if the other approach isn’t usable as is.
Rainsong
Might be fun to discuss further, yea?
Rainsong
Anyway, as regards non-consensual borrowing…Consider yourself warned. Any questions?
ceahhettan
And natural subconscious defenses can do a hell of a lot of damage.
Forest_Horns
Def so… if nothing else it gave me a few ideas to try
Rainsong
Excellent. 😀
Lutasi
how much of a bad ethics thing would it be to go “Hey can I see that?” on a purely TP scale with someone not necissarily practiced at TP
ceahhettan
Ehhhhh.
Rainsong
Can you re-phrase, please? Just to be sure I (and we all) understand exactly what is meant?
Lutasi
less of a “I will take the information I want mwahahaha” and more coming over with chocolates or something and asking if you cas see their dvd collection for a bit
Deo
I’ve found that doing stuff without permission also generally lowers your own wards, walls, and defenses. And if you’re doing something egregious it can really open you up to be messed with by others, both physical and non physical. So I’d assume something like this without permission would…not only be extremely painful for the other and difficult but…may invite some pretty bad things upon you and your house.
Simica
Bull
Simica
It depends on mentality and one’s own perspective. Aka if you lie and you know its wrong then your body and mind will reflect that
Lutasi
trotting up in there like the cutest goddamn puppy which will only be mollified with treats of knowledge
Simica
Anyways. Please go on Rain
Rainsong
Lutasi has an interesting question. I’m trying to come up with a useful answer.
Simica
Ah gotcha lol sorry
Aureum Animus
Seems kinda
Aureum Animus
Not a direct affront
Aureum Animus
But subversive?
Aureum Animus
At least on the level of car salesmen using nlp
Rainsong
Mostly you’d be dealing with an uneven power dynamic, Lutasi. And that can result in something affecting the person rather as though they’d been raped.. or at least publically groped.
Rainsong
I’d strongly suggest avoiding it.
Rainsong
Some of us routinely play variants of chess in which we are trying to affect the other player’s moves and whether they can accurately see what’s on the board, but both players know what’s happening when they choose to play. Doing that to someone without them knowing would be cheating at the very least, and deeply disturbing to them if they discovered it. (Some people areoblivious enough not to notice, but they aren’t always the same ones you’d think they are.)
Rainsong
Does that help answer your question, Lutasi?
Rainsong
Any other questions or commentary before we continue?
ceahhettan
None here.
Aureum Animus
What about secretly putting stuff in a head? Same idea?
Rainsong
Yes.
Lutasi
I’m good as far as pressing ehtical questions go. My B for derailing so quick.
Rainsong
Not at all. This one should raise ethical questions. You didn’t derail anything at all.
Deo
Please continue.
Dr. Strange Stuff
How to permissions apply whenever it comes to people who don’t believe in magic or believe in this ability? If I found a professor in anthropology and I asked him if I could “copy” something about Anthropology from him, and he says “if you have the ability you can copy it”, does that make it a ethical exchange? Or does the person have to believe in the possibility of it for a transfer to occur?
Rainsong
He doubts it’s possible but gave you permission to try, basically.
Rainsong
So that’s probably okay.
Rainsong
Continuing on, then…
Rainsong
Time for some Friendly Definitions.
Rainsong
There might be half a dozen members of this community familiar with this set of skills, and I discovered last weekend that not even we agreed on the terms used to describe them.
Rainsong
So, for purposes of discussion in this class…
metalforever
Deo – In reference to this comment, that isnt true. It’s more t hat you invite certain entities to fuck with you
metalforever
ie karma
Rainsong
“Borrowing” will refer to using someone else’s knowledge or skill temporarily, with that person “present” and without permanently taking the information into your own mind. I personally have normally used this term to mean any form of using or assimilating someone else’s mental data files.
Rainsong
“Mental data files” or just “mental files” are clumps of information, practiced skills, muscle movements if applicable, and so on. Small example would be the conjugation of the French verb Avoir in present tense indicative that a fourth-grade student has memorized for a school test or the list of items you need to remember to buy the next time you’re at the grocery store. Larger examples would be the learned ability to make psionic constructs or to speak Spanish or to drive a car.
Rainsong
“Copying files” or “Copy-pasting” will be used in this discussion to mean the active finding and acquisition of a mental data file in someone else’s mind, including the “saving” and assimilation of that file such that you can use the information at your leisure.
Rainsong
“Imprinting”, in this context, is doing this to somebody else. Whether the file you’re putting into the person’s mind comes from your own mind, somebody else’s, a computer disk, or the Akashic Records (did I spell that right?), the process is much the same once you’ve got the file itself.
Rainsong
In all cases, the original file also remains with the original owner of it. You’re making a copy – temporary or otherwise – and not removing the original. (There’s the possibility of messing up badly, and corrupting the original file, but that’s a different problem.)
Rainsong
Questions? Comments?
ceahhettan
None from me.
Simica
Nay
Aureum Animus
Nice
metalforever
I should remark its probably possible to delete the file.
metalforever
ie in the other person.
Aureum Animus
Possible but not generally the intent
Rainsong
Metalflower and Aureum Animus: True
Simica
Unless that is in fact the intent
ceahhettan
At least hopefully not the intent.
ceahhettan
It’s much more likely even if it was the intent that it would botch.
ceahhettan
The brain and mental structure are incredibly complicated things, after all.
Lutasi
wouldn’t it be easier to scramble it?
metalforever
There are reasons you would want that to be the intent
Aureum Animus
We getting on a tangent
metalforever
such as someone with ptsd
Aureum Animus
Generally, deleting the original is not the intent of borrowing data, though it is possible to do
ceahhettan
we are definitely getting on a bit of a tangent.
metalforever
or someone is doing something poor with magick and you wish to remove the ability for them to do it
Rainsong
Short version: yes, it can be done. There are several methods for that. I’m not going into them in this seminar, but it is not a hypothetical situation.
metalforever
no problem
Rainsong
And although I’m not going to go into it, I’m reassured that you folks can see where things like this can go. It’s nice teaching classes made up of folks who are thinking things through.
Rainsong
Any further questions or comments before we get to the meat of the matter? Or the carrots? Or Pie…?
Simica
Other than potatoes, nope
Rainsong
😀
Rainsong
As usual, the first thing to do is to decide what you’re going to do.
Rainsong
It’s a bit of a ridiculous example, but we’re going to pretend that you’re going to give your school chum your file of the conjugation of “avoir” in present tense indicative (“j’ai, tu as, il/elle a, nous avons, vous avez, ils/elles ont”).
Rainsong
Why you’d bother for something that easy, I’m not sure. Maybe you both have a French placement exam in an hour and your friend forgot to study? Who knows?
Rainsong
Whatever the reason might be for it, that’s the plan.
Rainsong
The next step is to find the file.
Rainsong
We’re going to use the metaphor of computer files here. This probably doesn’t come as a surprise to you, given the “files” and ‘copy-pasting” I’ve already mentioned, eh?
Rainsong
And we’re going to use visualization for navigational purposes.
ceahhettan
Makes sense to me.
Rainsong
Note: I’ll describe the instructions as though I were walking you through it in real time, but don’t actually try it right now.
Rainsong
Create a mental image (aka “Imagine…”) of a computer screen. I don’t care if it’s the screen of your iPhone, or your Surface tablet, or your 47” gaming computer… or an entirely imaginary computer screen that you’d like to have but doesn’t exist anywhere in this physical reality. Pick one and build an imaginary image of it.
Rainsong
Choose an operating system, and add the appropriate icons and/or text-entry pieces to the screen. (Turn on the imaginary screen, if you haven’t already by this time.)
Rainsong
Put together an imaginary keyboard and mouse, or some other input device(s) of your choice.
Rainsong
You can see where this is going, yea?
Rainsong
Either enter the instructions to display files or click on the file icon.
Rainsong
Take a look at how they are arranged, and what the file names are.
Rainsong
And then start guessing where the file (or the “document”) might be in your mental filing system. “Language”? “Communications”? “Boring stuff from primary school that nobody ever uses in real life”?
Rainsong
Pick a likely file, and open it up to look at sub-files. “Japanese cat videos”, nope. “Assorted physics formulae”, nope. “French verbs”? Bingo!
Rainsong
Now open that one up. Are they divided by tense and mood? By meaning? Jumbled together? Rummage through there until you find the bit you’re looking for.
Rainsong
Now copy that bit. “Click control-C” or “right-click and copy” or highlight it in violently green astral ooze, or whatever method you prefer.
Rainsong
Our hypothetical example has found and copied the file. Next up, what to do with it.
Rainsong
Questions so far? Commentary?
Rainsong
(And while yes, I do type pretty quickly, in this case I prepared the lecture yesterday, and am mostly copying-and-pasting in the conventional sense.)
ceahhettan
Can I bottle the violently green astral ooze and sell it as a souvenir for a bunch of money?
Fadyn
scp avoir.con “friend”
Rainsong
Ceah: Sure, go for it.
ceahhettan
I always need another get-rich-quick scheme, I mean really. :p
Rainsong
Fadyn?
Fadyn
It’s an easier way to copy files. Command line, less to visualize.
ceahhettan
Command line, oldschool like that.
Rainsong
Ah, excellent.
Fadyn
scp is also used to copy between machines rather than just moving it somewhere else on the same machine.
Rainsong
Use the navigation and “copy” approach that makes sense to you. As usual, my example is only one of several entirely workable models.
Fadyn
seemed a tad over complicated with more parts that could cause it to fail.
Fadyn
Conceptually the same, but requiring more focus.
Fadyn
Though probably more familiar to people I suppose.
Aureum Animus
Simplest way that feels natural
ceahhettan
Not everyone is going to be familiar with command line though.
Aureum Animus
If ya don’t know command line, ya gotta ctrl+c
Rainsong
I find that many people find the over-complicated visualization easier to hold, strangely enough. But if the simpler approach feels right to you, use it.
Fadyn
ceahhettan, sadly.
Lutasi
seems it’d be a matter of familiarity
Lutasi
hell you could just picture everything is a hall of paintings and paint yourself a forgery
ceahhettan
Anyway, tangents et cetera, And yeah. Personally I tend to visualize a physical file folder that I can “pick up”.
Lutasi
or a bunch of carvings and you take a rubbing (although that sounds a little dirty)
ceahhettan
The important part that we’re getting to here is that to use the visualization that works well for you that you can hold onto and put some willpower behind, I think?
Rainsong
Ceahhettan: yep, file folders and also other types of data storage such as disks or tapes, too.
Rainsong
That’s it exactly, yes.
Rainsong
So, we’ve got the file all ready to transfer.
Rainsong
Now to find the place to “paste” it.
Rainsong
Locate the person’s mind, first of all. For most people, this is easier if there is physical contact, obviously, but it can be done at a distance. (How much distance appears to vary from person to person.)
Rainsong
Repeat the same process of imagining a computer screen for their mental filing system, and either find the appropriate sub-file to paste the new bit into or create a new file.
Rainsong
Click control-V, or right-click and paste, choose an appropriate command line, leave the dossier open on the mental desk, or whatever.
Rainsong
Then also picture a progress animation of some kind to really make a clear instruction to get that file in there…or carefully picture setting the file down, opening it, and spreading the contents on the desktop.
Rainsong
Way back in the Dark Ages of the turn of the century, there was a cute little file-folder animation in which the folder flew from one location to the other. Sending a computer file the size of a Word document could take a few minutes.
Lutasi
imagine terry crews screaming ‘POOOWEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR’
Rainsong
hehe
Rainsong
Don’t be surprised if this is equally slow. If it makes you feel better, think of it as being a file several “gigs” (yes, I know it’s gigabyte….) in size.
ceahhettan
And I’d note that even putting a file somewhere can definitely trigger someone’s defenses if you were to be doing this without permission.
Rainsong
And tell the person to relax for a few minutes before trying to use/access it.
Rainsong
In our “verb” example, the person could just try to use the file immediately. Try writing out the conjugation, or reciting it, or using one of the verb forms in a sentence, and so on. If the file is complete enough to work on its own or if the person has the base knowledge to connect to it, there shouldn’t be any problem.
Rainsong
(Of course, if the person is physically unprepared for a physical action – lacking the muscle strength, for example – they will be in the position of “knowing how” to do something but being physically unable to actually do it.)
Rainsong
If the file is not complete on its own and doesn’t have something to connect with or attach to, it’s not going to do much good. The person could go in and take a look at it, and see if they can connect it to something, in much the same way as you found it in the first place.
Rainsong
Ceahhettan: Definitely, definitely so.
Rainsong
Questions? Commentary?
ceahhettan
Hm. No, don’t think so. At least not for the moment.
Simica
I may? Its rather an odd. Thing. Will save it for afterwards in pm
Rainsong
Okay
Aureum Animus
Could methods that aren’t strictly telepathic be viable?
ceahhettan
I have a few thoughts that need to mull over for a while.
ceahhettan
So nothing to hold up the discussion.
Fadyn
You could telekinetically rip a piece of grey matter out of someone’s head and shove it into your own. Don’t have high hopes for that method though.
Rainsong
Aureum Animus: Possibly? There is, for example, debate as to whether copy-pasting a file from a computer into your mind, or vice versa qualifies as telepathy.
Rainsong
(Incidentally, Sophia the robot is now a full citizen of Saudi Arabia)
Aureum Animus
I’ve used energy work/energetic linking as the medium for info transfer
Rainsong
Information transfer between two minds is telepathy by definition, however, if it doesn’t use the “normally accepted” channels.
ceahhettan
Fadyn: We are Borg?
ceahhettan
Although the borg were rather violent with their assimilation of new knowledge.
Rainsong
So that just brings it down to a question of semantics. There’s no reason your approach oughtn’t work, though, and as you indicate you’ve already done it, clearly it does work.
Aureum Animus
Ye I was wondering if it ought to be thought of as a different process
Rainsong
Just a different approach to the same end.
Rainsong
What I was describing was only one valid approach. It’s one I’ve taught in the past exactly twice.
Rainsong
But there are certainly others.
Aureum Animus
Using means that one’s defenses are already well under control seemingly allows for very low rates of adverse outcomes
Rainsong
Unintentional adverse outcomes are less likely when you’re using an approach that suits you well and in which you are well practiced, at least.
Aureum Animus
:thinking:
ceahhettan
So, borrowing would be rather the same but the reverse process from which you described for imprinting, right?
ceahhettan
Speaking of intentionally borrowing files and such.
Rainsong
And yes, finding and copying the file from someone else is done exactly as you’d expect from the instructions above:
-
Locate the other person’s mind,
-
Establish a visual navigation system,
-
Root around until you find the file, and
-
Copy.
Rainsong
It’s not that different to find a file or entry in a database or a thumbdrive or a similar storage-y thing. Some people are better at seeking out files in people and some are better at finding files in electronic critters.
ShadowRain
If both people are practitioners, it might be a little less intrusive to come up with the file from your own mind, “hand it” to the person, and let them assimilate it how they want?
Rainsong
Very much so.
ceahhettan
That’s a nice and polite version of all this, yes.
Rainsong
Also, the much more temporary “borrowing” is a bit harder to explain in terms of method. It helps if the person is doing or thinking about whatever the action or skill is.
Rainsong
And you need to be connected to them either by physical contact with the person’s field (or direct contact with the person’s body), or by an extended link. Deliberately borrowing the skill or action (or mannerism…) implies that you are concentrating on doing so.
Rainsong
It’s not entirely unheard-of for telepaths to do these things without thinking about it, or even realizing it until later.
Rainsong
This can be “socially awkward” at best…
ceahhettan
I’m pretty sure I unintentionally do it all the time.
Rainsong
Much like the setting of cantrips discussed last week, this is something that can also be induced by means of suggestion/hypnosis.
Rainsong
Not sure if I have much else to add to that one.
Rainsong
Commentary? Questions?
ceahhettan
The unintentional borrowing might or might not have been part of when I learned to drive.
ceahhettan
:p
Lutasi
so it’s pretty much pulling a guide book up on screen and following the instructions?
ceahhettan
In a more limited application, the imprinting stuff is pretty much projective telepathy 101?
ceahhettan
Because it’s the same set of steps that one could use to imprint, say, an emotion.
Rainsong
More like Projective Telepathy 402, but definitely in the same category.
ceahhettan
Okay, 101 if you’re already a telepath.
Rainsong
Lutasi: pretty much.
Rainsong
Borrowing tends to involve the surface thoughts and active files, instead of digging around. It still pisses people off, though.
Rainsong
(And I know some folks who make a living off of using it.)
Wayfarer
It’s also just, energy manipulation 101, this “imprinting.” I mean, let’s be honest. But non-natural telepaths are just projecting via energetics anyhow for the most part.
ceahhettan
Yeah.
ceahhettan
In any case. I enjoyed the lecture. I’m really liking this whole part of discord where I actually manage to be around for it.
Rainsong
😀
ceahhettan
Also, I’ve got cell service for the next foreseeable 60+ miles, so I’ll reiterate my offer to be a guinea pig if anyone would like to try the borrowing bit.
Rainsong
Thanks for participating in the seminar, everyone. We had some good discussions happening there.
Simica
Thank you for giving it
Rainsong
And thank you, Ceahhettan, for volunteering to lead the practice session.
Rainsong
😀
ceahhettan
Sure thing. 😀
Dr. Strange Stuff
Thank you very much for this lecture Rainsong.
ceahhettan
I like when lectures lead to such interesting discussions.
ceahhettan
Any takers on the practise bit?
Rainsong
You’re welcome, all
Lutasi
ehh sure?
ceahhettan
I’ve spent part of the lecture clearing a section of my surface thoughts and isolating a “file” so to speak.
ceahhettan
Apologies to anyone else, I’m gonna be real deliberately telepathically loud for a few so that I’m easy to find.
silton2
Is it possible to create a soet of construct to hold these thoughts such as a flash drive thing?
ceahhettan
Creating a construct would be a wholly unnecessary step I’d think unless you’re trying to leave it somewhere like a marker buoy.
Turbo
@Rainsong Can the copy and pasting be done remotely or is this strictly an in person application
Simica
Remotely as well as in person if I am understanding the question right
Rainsong
It can be done remotely. I personally have never done it further than a few thousand kilometres.
Lutasi
if it didn’t work remotely there wouldn’d be much point in the seas headwear acting as a practice field
Turbo
Okay
Turbo
If people were interested to practice this – what would you say would be am appropriate way to do it? Mom’s old cookie recipe? A phone number?
Rainsong
Cookie recipes are fine, sure.
ceahhettan
I put up how I center. it’s something I assume everyone knows how to do but people do differently individually
rowinha
The feeling of the earth cracking below and around you. o:)
Simica
Starting off small vs say learning to do a job.
Rainsong
Procedural or simple data that doesn’t touch too closely on anything you don’t want aired publically.
Lutasi
no putting up exactly how you … interact, with your SO
ceahhettan
I could. it wouldn’t be terribly interesting
Turbo
One last Question – is this a purely visualization technique or is there a direct movement of energy you need to do?
Simica
goes matrix style downloading sorry xD
Rainsong
There is movement of energy, yes, but in my experience at least it’s closer to the Stone Tower Shield construction.
Turbo
So a strong mental picture and trust that energy knows where it needs to go
ceahhettan
yeah.
Rainsong
nods And also, the effort that goes into building up the mental imagery seems to direct the “energy” stuff.
Turbo
Got it
Simica
@Turbo turbo it would be like you would be the external drive and the other person is the main hard drive. @Rainsong fair comparison?
Rainsong
Yeah, that works.
Turbo
nod
ceahhettan
I’ve also found it always easier with people I work with on a regular or even semi regular basis.
Rainsong
(And Turbo and all, there’s no problem with asking lots of questions.)
Dr. Strange Stuff
Okay. If I wanted to download a book from my computer to my brain, I would Imagine the computer in front of me with the file in the computer. Go into the Downloads folder. Select the file and right click it with my visualized mouse reacting to the visualized computer screen. Visualize another computer that is my brain and find a place that I would want to keep it, maybe a folder labeled Books. Right click on the folder labeled Books on the computer I associated with my brain, and Paste. Then… I let the information download? When will I know when it is done?
Dr. Strange Stuff
Also, sorry I am a bit late, just got off work >.<
Aureum Animus
I dunno that silicon to meat interface is up to snuff
Rainsong
@Dr. Strange Stuff If you do it right, you’ll know it’s done whenever the transfer indication is done. For most folks, it’s considerably more difficult to get the “compatibility issues” sorted, going from computer to brain, but you won’t know whether you’re in that group until you’ve tried it.
Dr. Strange Stuff
Alright, great. Thank you.
Rainsong
You’re welcome. 😀
Dr. Strange Stuff
Alright. And to break this down into newbie skills that one must have a very good grip on before this Intermediate skills is possible, how does this list look? Heavy/ Intricate visualization Projecting Familiarity with how your own brain sorts information Familiarity with how others’ brains sort information :thinking: Would there be any other skills that are applicable?
ShadowRain
Parsing information?
Rainsong
It’s best if the person attempting it has had some kind of telepathic experience already
Dr. Strange Stuff
Okay great
Dr. Strange Stuff
:thinking: Would there be any glaringly obvious negatives to a group of say, 5 people learning this skill(Downloading/ Imprinting), then each researching 5 different things, then sharing all of those things with each other? Essentially creating a mastermind of learning/mastery of subjects with more information exchange?
ShadowRain
No, main thing is making sure it’s done in a way that results in actually useable info
ShadowRain
Not just people who think they’ve downloaded the knowledge of the universe
Dr. Strange Stuff
Okay, then to “make sure it’s done in a way that results in actually useable info”, is it neccessary for more than one person to use the same visualization technique? For instance, if I learned Fadyn’s method of doing this or Ceahhettan’s method, would I have better transmission to or from either one of them depending on the visualization I used?
Wayfarer
You do also run into the slight efficiency issues of, you know, learning a whole skill well enough to move huge amounts of information telepathically via symbolic transfer interface, and is that more efficient than just, you know, studying all the things yourself?
Lutasi
that’s pretty obviously a scale thing
Dr. Strange Stuff
That is a good point. I do wonder if there is another “skill” that could be added to this that would act as a universal data hub, that you use to plug one person to any other and it would almost guarantee to sort the information into usable packets. If that was possible, then learning the skill just lectured on would surely be worth the time spent learning it to learn from anyone you have permission from.
Dr. Strange Stuff
Although at this point I could only speculate on that
rowinha
For what it’s worth, I’ve also found that some skills have prerequisites. They simply will not unpack if the more basic skill hasn’t been learned. So, you know, there isn’t a shortcut for everything.
rowinha
Or rather, there isn’t one shortcut for everything.
Dr. Strange Stuff
Makes sense.