Instructor: Rainsong
Date: June 8, 2019 (Saturday)
Seminar: Topic: “Scientific vs Spiritual approach to Psionics, and issues arising”- Saturday, 8 June, 2019 at 6:30pm/1830hr New York Time — text format in the PSC #lecture room (Discord) — Instructor: Rainsong — Search LECTURE78
Rainsong: @everyone Seminar starts in about 45 minutes: Topic … – Saturday, 8 June, 2019 at 6:30pm/1830hr New York Time — text format in the PSC #lecture room (Discord) — Instructor: Rainsong — Search LECTURE78
Nevyn: I love talking about …! :sweatsmile:
Chirotractor: lets do something absurdly arcane and jargonistic
Rainsong: Such as?
Rainsong: Paradigms and Mindstates are in the proverbial queue, but I’m not teaching either tonight.
Chirotractor: well the thing about jargon is that if you know it it just seems like precise language
Rainsong: Chinook Jargon’s pretty cool
Rainsong: It’s a trade pidgin
Rainsong: “Naika mamook Bostonman wawa” = You speak with a strange/amusing accent / You talk funny (Literally: You speak in the manner of an American)
Chirotractor: Heh
Chirotractor: a bostonian even
Rainsong: Indeed
Whisp: scientific vs. spiritual approach to psionics?
Rainsong: Hmm. Interesting topic. Not one I’m well-suited to teach.
Whisp: all have opinions though, should do the dtrick
Whisp: questions arise quite easily
Rainsong: If you folks are in favour of a “moderated discussion” type of seminar on the topic, sure
Fadyn: How about an analysis of someone that waffles between them so much it makes them actually lose progress?
Whisp: I like it
Whisp: immediately brings about a question actually: How to tell when the influence of one begins impeding the othr?
Vampire of Death: Does it make sense that someone would lose progress if they were to be reasonably proficient in both? @Fadyn @Whisp
Whisp: yes
Vampire of Death: I think that they are both different ways of describing essentially the same forces.
Vampire of Death: With different application.
Vampire of Death: In what way does it make sense? @Whisp
Chirotractor: when you summon spirits to participate in your tripple blind study I think you should be asking questions
Vampire of Death: Sounds reductive, but alright.
Whisp: I dont see them as teh sam forces
Vampire of Death: Why is that?
Whisp: the scientifc part, call it raw skill
Whisp: the other, emotion
Vampire of Death: Which is emotion and which is skill? I need clarification to understand your position.
Whisp: they can work togethr, or paralyze each othr
Whisp: In psi, skill refers to teh ability to create a result at will
Vampire of Death: The question isn’t about whether they do or don’t but —Why? @Whisp
Whisp: Because the more you know, the more hesitant you can becom to act
Vampire of Death: I… Strongly disagree.
Whisp: there is to be able to be imagine, and able to do
Whisp: there is knowledge through experience and study, of ripple effects
Vampire of Death: Ripple effects, such as?
Whisp: no action takes place in a vaccum
Whisp: If you take an action, there was a reason. Just like one of the science fiction movies about time, follow the results from the action. May be insignificant, may not be.
Whisp: If you timetravel say, and bring back ancient plant life, what will happen
Whisp: this, is the ripple effect. Disturb the water, it affects the water outward
Vampire of Death: In my personal opinion, the only way that magic would impede psionics, vice versa is if your magical applications are getting in the way of your typical psionics routines, or is sincerely affecting your ability to focus on improving.
Vampire of Death: For example, if you practice one hour of psionics but decided to do half an hour of ritual and half and hour of psionics, I believe you’d slow your progress significantly, giving the perception of loss of talent.
Whisp: dont think w are having the same conversation ?
Whisp: psionics is a subset of magic….
Vampire of Death: So, then, if we aren’t on the same topic, let’s recenter back to the similar one.
Vampire of Death: What is it that we’re discussing? According to you?
Whisp: We started with teh scientific approach vs the spiritual approach to psionics, and can this be so balanced that a brings the practitioner to a standstill
Whisp: C’mon in Fadyn (trying to make a sandwich)
Vampire of Death: My belief system (ecclectic) allows me to lend concurrent credence to both approaches. The reason being is that the end result is the same, though the methodology and visualization might differ. I do not think that it can be so balanced that it brings the practitioner to a standstill because advancing in one would mean advancing in another. Ex. Learning telepathy magically vs scientifically — Improving in the magical sense but putting in no effort toward the scientific therefore means that you’d have more difficulty trying to do it scientifically. Reason being is that the scientific method is like learning the same task, just in a different way. You might not be used to it but they cannot actually ‘stop’ each other, it’s about mental blocks, perceived difficulty or skill — Dunning Kreuger.
Rainsong: Just recently, I bought a book on radionics (because one can never have too much data, right?), and the author takes a spiritual approach to it. That seems to suit him. It doesn’t suit me, particularly, so I conduct my radionics without that component. I’m not seeing a problem with it.
Vampire of Death: I strongly agree.
Whisp: I also tend to leave tmotion out of it. Its seems messy and unnecessary.
Vampire of Death: Are you implying that the magical approach is emotional?
Whisp: I think the spiritual or moral component should part of teh decision process of whether to do anything or not.
Whisp: Corrupt: no
Rainsong: I do regularly use emotion in my work. I also have to defend against it.. not to mention moderate my own emotions.
Vampire of Death: I do not think the spiritual or moral component should have any impact unless you plan on doing something illegal with psionics.
Whisp: Emotion doess add some oomph to work.
Whisp: I just find it more unpredictable and volatile to work with
Vampire of Death: I understand why emotions might help, but I actually attempt to regulate my emotions to a calm or relative standstill as to not use them as a crutch.
Vampire of Death: I want the effort I put into it to go completely into the process, and for my emotional state to be irrelevant to my results.
Rainsong: I confess my approach to the legality and/or ethics of psionics comes down to: would you do this by non-psionic means for the same purposes, if it were possible/practical to do so? If not, you probably shouldn’t do it psionically either.
Vampire of Death: Yes.
Vampire of Death: I have a question about that actually, Rainsong.
Rainsong: That’s because I regard psionics as a tool and skillset
Rainsong: Sure thing… question?
Vampire of Death: Are there consequences outside of the cause and effect of utilizing psionics to do harm? For example causing someone brain-damage or a headache.
Vampire of Death: Let’s say I’m in a public place and I try to make a guy’s head explode, how would anyone who doesn’t practice know it was me?
Vampire of Death: Is the only limitation our sense of morality, ethics and self control? It can be a bit worrisome to imagine.
Rainsong: Depends how you did it, whether you were showing signs/symptoms of the effort involved, and whether anyone competent to detect the work observed it
Vampire of Death: I doubt there’s a ‘psionics’ police running around.
Vampire of Death: Have you heard of or experienced being approached by government officials at any time for your prowess? Personal experience question.
Rainsong: For the most part, you are restricted only by your own conscience, skill, and strength
Rainsong: I’ve done some stuff for the government
Vampire of Death: Is it counter productive to think of the will as something with infinite capacity when attempting psionics?
Rainsong: Counter-productive? No, I wouldn’t think so.
Rainsong: Just don’t push yourself into cardiac arrest.
Rainsong: It’s not fun
Vampire of Death: So I have a few questions related to receiver / sender, and variant results in psionics that you might not be able to answer but are worth a shot asking anyway.
Whisp: As for psionics police, well no.
Whisp: Can another pissed off psion mess with you? oh yes
Vampire of Death: Does the sensitivity of what you did (the ability of the receiver to feel) depend more on on: 1. Your skill or: 2. Their ability to sense? The reason I ask is that performing the same action (projection to make simple physical sensations), does not work on the same two people the same. Regardless of visualization technique they seem to sometimes get sensation on the opposite side of the body that I touch (I visualize from their perspective and mine), or they will not feel anything at all. I’m curious if the sensitivity of the individual matters?
Rainsong: It does. Also nothing works 100% of the time
Chirotractor: like you sorta both gotta be at a threshhold to pass a signal
Rainsong: Your skill and their sensitivity are both factors
Chirotractor: you can’t send a radio broadcast to a leaf
Vampire of Death: Is there a hypothetical reason why it doesn’t always work?
Whisp: one question at a time usually works better when you have multiple respondents,
Vampire of Death: Broken down.
Vampire of Death: I’ll ask one at a time.
Rainsong: Is there a reason? Probably. No idea what it is.
Whisp: psi conversation is not entirely different thatn verbal
Whisp: people are messy, complex creatures
Whisp: we get distracted, can have different priorities, different definitions, and are emotional
Rainsong: Of course, a common problem is lack of focus / distraction
Vampire of Death: I’m just curious why this occurs when I am trying my best to focus.
Whisp: go tell a faithful person tehy are irrational, see how far that gets. People can subconsciously filter out any info they dont want, dont like, or feels like a distraction
Chirotractor: easiest thing to pass along is <this is what I’m going to do>
Rainsong: Might be trying too hard, and sabotaging your own efforts, too.
Whisp: you see, you sent it, they got it. And promptly ignored it.
Whisp: that is only one aspect of communication
Rainsong: A playful, “let’s see whether this works” or “what can we learn from this experience?” approach can be useful
Whisp: indeed
Whisp: setting the scene is important
Whisp: both people have to want to play (be willing)
Vampire of Death: Trying too hard is possible?
Vampire of Death: That’s new to me, I’m curious about this.
Rainsong: Yep
Whisp: certainly
Vampire of Death: Is a relaxed state the best within which to practice? And is it possible to tire yourself out then?
Rainsong: It’s more than possible to tire yourself out, whether you’re relaxed or not, and whether you accomplish anything or not
Rainsong: As to whether a relaxed state is the best one…. That’s a more difficult question.
Vampire of Death: Is it only through practice that you can increase accuracy, and effect and does this also mean that you can improve the consistency within which your projection or otherwise can work?
Rainsong: I’m not sure there is a “best” way, other than “what works for you”
Rainsong: Practice can improve both efficacy and effectiveness.
Rainsong: We don’t have enough data to determine how much improvement is possible. At the very least, a comfortably skillful routine is less distracting than trying to remember how to Send, while trying to Send something
Whisp: that
Whisp: part of practice, is memory-movement
Whisp: think it, it happens. Not, think about how, then try, then hope
Rainsong: But a strong emotion such as anger or fear is not exactly relaxing, but can make for a much stronger signal. It’s not necessarily great to rely on such a crutch, but it can be handy in a pinch
Vampire of Death: And lastly, does emotional state typically play a role in this and is it possible for the psion to ‘lock down’ themselves unintentionally because of their emotions?
Rainsong: It can, and that’s possible, yes.
Rainsong: Not nearly as common as some “noobs” would have you believe, but possible
Rainsong: Whisp: Does your scienfitic-vs-spiritual concept extend to “doing such-and-such for the greater glory/honour of (insert name of Deity here, according to the practitioner’s devotions)”?
Vampire of Death: Yeah, I don’t think it occurs that frequently, the lockdown effect, but I have had times where the ‘flow’ of energy within me literally feels blocked or stopped, and not because I am afraid or unwilling but almost like I just ‘can’t’ at that time.
Rainsong: Being tired, or messed up by imbalanced hormones, can muck up your work.
Vampire of Death: Mm, that makes sense.
Vampire of Death: I will change how I do things in the future on a basis of your reccomendations, specifically when I practice.
Vampire of Death: I practice when I am not well rested more often than not.
Whisp: Rain, my approach is too block emotion because it muddies results of what I am trying to look at.
Whisp: I tend to be results oriented. I only allow emotion if its part of what I want to know
Whisp: I’m an atheist, so I take whatever contact received all the same.
Whisp: My only real concerns are clarity of information exchange
Vampire of Death: Ah, an atheist. Respect to your lack of belief.
Vampire of Death: Now atheism crosses my mind, does it unironically impact or impede one’s ability to do psionics?
Rainsong: Not as far as I know.
Vampire of Death: I’m very curious if it did, or could, and why.
Whisp: Maybe in some small way. I respect skill level, but tend to believe less in claims of divinity, or of any entity being more special than another
Whisp: there is no assumed deference
Rainsong: I know several very competent psionicists who are atheist
Rainsong: By contrast, I’m a Catholic with a debt-of-honour to Pele
Vampire of Death: That’s fair. How does an atheist rationalize the existence of psionics verses how an occultist might say ‘energy’ or ‘magick’ or ‘god’?
Whisp: because its big or can project an image, doesnt make it a deity
Whisp: you just get used to the terminology, and analyze how people think
Vampire of Death: Is it due to logic (evidence before belief)?
Whisp: theists tend to put a lot of weight on hierarchies
Vampire of Death: Or is it more of a ‘this is a strange phenomenon that needs more scientific research?’
Whisp: pretty much. Its there. So I use it
Vampire of Death: Thank you for answering, Whisp.
Whisp: If I am going to use it, I should use it well. so, study/practice
Vampire of Death: That perspective is actually very interesting to me. I was an atheist before I was spiritual.
Vampire of Death: My persuasion was changed due to things that are not particularly psionic.
Vampire of Death: Can psionics be used to communicate with the dead?
Whisp: sorta maybe. Not the way people think, imho
Whisp: If you can make a programmed construct, you can leave messages in it. If someone finds it, is this communication with the dead?
Vampire of Death: Hmm…
Vampire of Death: … Well, I define ‘the dead’ as something or someone who was once living in vessel (body).
Vampire of Death: But is now no longer, or perceived to be no longer inside of it, due to mortis.
Rainsong: Soon after death – within days, for example, but the exact period I don’t know – many of the dead are still close enough to this reality to be able to communicate across it, but visual impressions seem to be easier for them to convey than sound
Whisp: I prefer the scientifc appraoch, becuase one needs to think thingss through, rather than accept the answer that is what they want to hear
Vampire of Death: That makes things a bit interesting, Rainsong, because I wondered about the passage of time and the half-life of souls frequently. More specifically in the case of famously haunted buildings or houses with apparitions that are said to be very clearly that of dead celebrities, etc.
Whisp: I agree with Rain, on that
Vampire of Death: I should do more research on the technique to improving clairaudience, my most natural, but certainly not easiest skill.
Whisp: ‘haunted’ places tend to irritate me. I have investigated many
Vampire of Death: That’s deeply interesting, what was the most ‘haunted’ location you’ve visited and why?
Whisp: If you enter a place expecting there to be a presence, and there isnt one, many people will themselves create teh presence. Tehy have been frontloaded
Whisp: and then it cycles
Vampire of Death: I am always cautious not to confuse the ethereal abilities with the physical ones, for instance paying attention to my surroundings and responses of other people.
Vampire of Death: That’s interesting, Whisp. I tend to judge how haunted a place is based not on hearsay or research, but actually by a very subjective sensation like people are moving about inside — When the place is clearly abandoned.
Whisp: See how the advertisements/stories work?
Vampire of Death: However, I haven’t gone on many journies inside myself, just simply visited the property, taken pictures, or just ‘sensed something is off’.
Whisp: People expect it, will create it in detail, because tehy want it to be true
Whisp: psionics is messy 🙂
Vampire of Death: It certainly isn’t a clean practice.
Vampire of Death: What I meant before was — I might find a house that was recently vacated, don’t know anything about it, but ‘sense’ something.
Vampire of Death: To determine its ‘hauntedness’.
Whisp: goood idea
Vampire of Death: I’ve seen houses that look god awful but are actually energetically pure.
Whisp: Take what comes, not what is fed. approves
Vampire of Death: And houses that look really nice, but have a dreadful, horrible sensation inside.
Rainsong: My experiences are more mundane: church organist hired by a small rural church a few villages over to fill in while someone was on sabbatical. The dead – with one exception – all showed up to their own funerals. They weren;t (again, except for one) people I’d ever met.
Vampire of Death: If and when the dead can ‘communicate’ with me, I am not afraid to actually ask the relatives to confirm or deny what I think I heard.
Vampire of Death: It is very satisfying to see faces go white.
Whisp: I have found that people create some kind of bubbles/thoughtforms that are left behind. Especially after profound discussions. those can be retrieved after they pass sometimes.
Whisp: I have no idea how or why that is, just that it happens
Vampire of Death: Based on my belief it’s something called a signature? It’s a lot like a telepathic message but instead of being broadcast it is bound to a location (fixed or mutable) that carries it with it.
Whisp: I give people very little info after a passing. Usually only if they are/are not within reach
Vampire of Death: Similar to psychometry, claircognizance, intuition.
Chirotractor: the way you said that whisp reminds me of when deja vu show up for me
Whisp: It feels a bit like that, yes
Whisp: Corrupt, not how most of us define signature, I think
Vampire of Death: Do your eyes ever water when you receive these messages from these ‘signatures’? Or in general when you are getting something that is psionic?
Whisp: in most psi circles, your signature is teh unique energy pattern belonging to you. Like a fingerprint.
Whisp: Its how scannerss find you
Vampire of Death: Sometimes, my eye balls will sweat, and my vision blurs a lot.
Whisp: Not generally, no.
Whisp: But I’m old.
Whisp: Information appears in my mind, I listen or reject it. Its just there
Vampire of Death: I can reliably use it to determine if I’m frontloaded for the most part, but I don’t take confidence in it as my sole resource. It’s perfectly possible to create the frison effect with spooky language, too.
Whisp: I may be an anomoly. Have not practiced for a long time due to illness. So, I actively reach for nothing
Whisp: The “let it be’ approach, you could say.
Vampire of Death: Is it reasonable to believe that your physical condition is connected to psionics since getting sick or being tired seems to affect some more than others?
Vampire of Death: I don’t notice a difference in my effectiveness based on my well-being, but I do when I am tired, it feels strained.
Whisp: In my case no. Environmentally caused
Vampire of Death: Whisp, what is your favorite psionic practice and why?
Whisp: Its not always the illness, but the drugs to treat it that interfere with mental functioning
Whisp: I dont have a fav per se. I’m a natural telepath and fairly lazy. And comfortable with it, so that tends to dominate
Whisp: path of least resistance and all
Chirotractor: hooray for lazy!
Vampire of Death: I am trying to get more into telepathy, and Rainsong wrote an awesome article and provided me with some awesome examples on how to get started.
Vampire of Death: It increases with use, yes? A skill?
Whisp: excellet
Whisp: yes
Whisp: note that tp is highly susceptible to emotional interference
Rainsong: Happy to “hear” that an article was helpful 😀
Vampire of Death: I want to see if this is consistent: My experience was up to 3 hours of telepathy practice with various numbers of people on two separate days / occasions, then a period of three days with no practice. On the second day of practice it was the strongest, on the final day without practice we were getting inaccurate results both broadcasting and receiving. Is this consistent with the idea of it being a skill?
Vampire of Death: Your article was helpful for a number of reasons, especially the lemon example. @Rainsong
Whisp: I dont use conventional methods, so Rain will have to help you witth that
Vampire of Death: One of our partners / friends actually was using your lemon technique before we read about it.
Vampire of Death: He started visualizing grass, and water, while we were doing ‘color’ telepathy exercise.
Vampire of Death: It was a bit spooky, ngl.
Vampire of Death: I’m starting to notice that frequency / tuning sensation, almost a feeling like being ‘tuned in’. How could I go about controlling it?
Vampire of Death: I’m sure with practice it gets easier, but more specifically, I want to be able to get a better grasp of the methodology to it, if there is one.
Rainsong: There are several viable methods.
Vampire of Death: I will take one and stick with it.
Rainsong: Three hours of practice, for a beginner, is quite a bit like going to the gym for the first time, and starting with dead-lifting twice your weight
Vampire of Death: Ah, it was so much fun. We didn’t want to quit.
Rainsong: That’s great that it was fun 🙂
Vampire of Death: Group chat with friends, and we were all deeply interested in how well it was working that we only quit when we were all going to bed.
Vampire of Death: Yeah, it definitely was.
Rainsong: That situation, with a bunch of people interested and having a good time, is pretty conducive to good results
Vampire of Death: I’ll wait for your answer about tuning before I ask my next question, it’s related to ‘seeing’ / clairvoyance / telepathy.
Rainsong: As for your tuning thing, for many people, the easiest way to control that, is to “pretend” to turn a dial, as on a radio.
Rainsong: Sure, those kinds of visualizations are a crutch, but they are useful learning tools nonetheless
Vampire of Death: Ah, visualization, alright.
Vampire of Death: This next question is a bit of a mix. During the worst telepathy session which was most recently, we had trouble distinguishing between the colors, red and yellow, green and brown.
Vampire of Death: Yes, I’m aware that everyone perceives color differently, but then it gave me the question: Aren’t we technically ‘re-learning’ our senses in a energetic / psionic way when we practice this? Thus leading to the variation in the ability to ‘see’ or accurately judge the color?
Vampire of Death: A lot like learning to see with your eyes all over again, just in a different way.
Rainsong: It’s an interpretation. If the stuff’s coming through as intellectual or perceptual data, you’re not literally “Seeing” anything. If it’s coming through directly to the optic nerve, I’d think the colour confusion is less likely, but also more limited. And, at this stage, there’s no way to tell which way you’re picking things up, without complicated and expensive medical equipment
Vampire of Death: Ah, alright. I appreciate the reply regardless of if the answer is not exactly conclusive.
Rainsong: I can only give conclusive answers when I have conclusive answers. And for this one, I don’t 🙂
Vampire of Death: Yes, I respectfully understand. It would be unfair to think you know everything, right? 😀
Whisp: remember the scientific approach part: there are variables to be accounted for
Vampire of Death: Indeed, variables are tedious but necessary.
Whisp: So, my shirt is teal. My son would call it blue, my daughter green.
Whisp: variables…
Rainsong: If anyone claims to know everything about this field of study, they are either misguided, lying, or too new to know how much they don’t know yet
Chirotractor: it’s magenta
Chirotractor: in negative zone
Whisp: One thing that messes up tp using colors or shapes, is your own mind wandering
Whisp: you start thinking “I sent square last time, will send circle this time”. You attempt to send circle, but your mind still has image of square, not erased. you send both.
Whisp: Instant confusion
Rainsong: Also, forced-choice itself throws some complications in. Logical part of the mind is guessing about things
Whisp: On the other side, reciever is having the ‘analysis’ moment. “he sent a square last will send something different’ . Not nec so
Whisp: yup
Whisp: targeted sending requires discipline
Whisp: to ‘send a signal down the wire’ so to speak, for consistent success, both ends of the wire need to be clean
Vampire of Death: I agree with the statement about forced choice and the odds of ‘guessing’ being too great.
Whisp: I usually expresss it as learning to take what comes, as it comes.
Whisp: Dont try to guess it, or control it
Vampire of Death: Yeah, that’s something I told the receivers in the group — Use your first intuitive answer, not the guess that you came up with when you second guess yourself.
Vampire of Death: Even if it’s wrong, it’s fine, because they’d be learning to do it ‘on the fly’ rather than the ‘uh, um’ that isn’t really useful in real world telepathic application.
Chirotractor: in scanning even I tend to get a very good first impression with increasing falloff afterwards
Whisp: it can be viewed as leaving thngs in their natural state
Rainsong: After the first three seconds, you’re guessing. So it’s important to “start again” frequently if you’re looking at something or listening for something for longer than that
Whisp: message comes through wonky, illegical. But that is pure in its way
Rainsong: Human nature for the win. (The three-second rule might not apply to members of other species. Your mileage may vary, as they say)
Rainsong: (Of course, the number of rabbits, parrots, and chickens reading the log of an obscure internet-based text-chat is probably fairly limited)
senpai…: :rabbit:
Rainsong: After all these years, “What the hell is ‘beige’?” has got to be the funniest response regarding colours
Whisp: lol
Whisp: I tell people its that color of the carpet in cookie-cutter apartmentss
Vampire of Death: What the hell is ‘beige’, lmao.
Whisp: what is your interest if tp, Corrupt?
Whisp: taking over the world?
Vampire of Death: No, actually. Like I said before, I was atheist before I was spiritual, (became spiritual due to circumstances outside of my control). I played a bit with telekinesis, and the *-kinesis related to manipulating plants, aerokinesis, telekiness, and pyrokinesis as a kid, but I wasn’t proficient enough at it for it to be ‘real’ to me. Fast forward to now, having telepathic experiences at random and more or less seeing it as a latent skill that’d be nice to practice. So my answer is a lot like wanting to learn it for potentially, positive purposes and also because I am autistic, so it’d ease the ‘mind-blindness’ (unable to tell what others are thinking / read social cues) a wee bit. I’m not sure how good I can get at it or if it will be that useful to help with my disabiilty, but I’ve got freetime and a heavy interest in psionics as a whole — More specifically psychokinesis.
Whisp: Seems like good reasons to me
Whisp: It’s tehre, explore it
Whisp: to help with people, I would not say I recommend it. Too many years to reach a skill level to be really an asset in daily life.
Whisp: For that, study psychology/human behavior, and speech patterns. Those can be analyzed with logic, at high speed
Whisp: And more accurately.
Whisp: psi is never going to replace how fast your brain can analyze info it see/hears/feels, especially when those are simultaneous.
Whisp: psi is an enhancement, not a replacement for thinking
Whisp: its greatest benefit in interaction with people is knowing when what they are saying does not match what they are thinking
Rainsong: I’ve sometimes found it helpful when I don’t understand what they are saying, because of language barriers
Rainsong: Reading their intent, instead can fill in the gist
Whisp: true, I dont run into that too often though
Whisp: I do find it more tempting to reach for the thoughts where there is a language issue, though
Vampire of Death: I appreciate that advice, Whisp.
Vampire of Death: Human psychology / behavior has helped me significantly.
Vampire of Death: Psionics definitely would only enhance it like you suggested.
Rainsong: I know someone who uses it that way professionally. He’s an interpreter (like translation, but vocal instead of written) by trade
Whisp: ah, a profession that has an excellent use for psi. Good match up
Vampire of Death: I think that using telepathy to understand people who are speaking another language is actually the most proving of it in my eyes.
Vampire of Death: That’s impressive.
Whisp: And it carries the emotional component that can add some oomph to it.
Whisp: Communication is a hardwired human desire
Whisp: I include teh emotional connection in the ‘spiritual’ side of the mehod used
Whisp: To me, spiritual isnt necessarily to do with a faith, but of transferrance of emotions and intent between people
Whisp: Some conversations make no sense as words with no emphasis anywhere
Whisp: MY book….and my BOOK have different meanings. That make sense?
Chirotractor: Basically anyone on the internet probably has a bit of practice with telepathu
Whisp: I would say so.
Whisp: The human instinct to reach out, to make a connection, is there in most people.
Whisp: Its what brings on accidental linking
Wayfarer: Also an interpreter/translator/guy who has to get by in not-his-native-language and can confirm telepathy is a bigtime pro move.
Whisp: Someone who practices a lot, can find themselves backing up, learning how to ‘not’ connect to people they speak to
Wayfarer: But to me the most interesting evidence of it is the fact that it’s just taken as understood in many other cultures.
Whisp: most certainly
Whisp: those cultures tend not t be afraid of it
Rainsong: You can understand the intelligence services being concerned about it. “Need to know” is a bit tricky to maintain with psychics
Whisp: yes. But the input is often so fragmented as to not be a real threat
Rainsong: Still, they would be negligent in their duties if they ignored it entirely
Whisp: Yes, all variables must be taken into account
Whisp: in security as well as research
Vampire of Death: Interesting.
Vampire of Death: I think about this a lot.
Vampire of Death: Psionics, and national security.
Whisp: I think a skilled strategist is more an asset than a psychic
Whisp: telepathy has built in hazards, of misinterpretation
Whisp: so, I see a knife with blue symbols on it. So…what does that mean to me? what does it mean in china? malaysia? mexico?
Whisp: clusterfuck built right into it
Rainsong: To be fair, charlie-foxtrrots aren’t exactly unheard-of in non-psychic intelligence work
Rainsong: And in the military, “we call that ‘Tuesday'”
Whisp: lol
Whisp: Very occasionally, Wayfarer appears to me in visual form. As a nine year old boy with blond hair and blue eyes.
Whisp: psi can be very unreliable 🙂
Rainsong: Dude’s no longer nine years old
Chirotractor: in body perhaps
Chirotractor: but spirit?
Rainsong: Hmm. Interesting point, Chiro
Whisp: He was about 15? when we started chatted, so it wasnt accurate even them
Fadyn: Kinda was…
Whisp: but it works. Its ingrained as his ‘identity’ so if the image appears, I know who it is.
Wayfarer: Right. It’s like aura interpretation and so on as well. We bring our own thing into it. Remember that literally everything you experience you’re experiencing through a filter. You only experience phenomena, not noumena.
Wayfarer: This is also why “tell me what I’m thinking” is so utterly unreliable, but also why telepathy works across language barriers. I might not use the same words as someone else to describe a proto-concept. El gato, Katze, Cat, Shimi, Bila, whatever, they’re the same animal generally. When someone else thinks Katze, I’m thinking “Cat.” We’re thinking about something that’s neither of those things because those are labels.
Wayfarer: This is a big part of why proximity to a person and familiarity with a person helps significantly. You learn what words that person uses when they encounter certain consciousness-events.
Wayfarer: Regarding psionics and national security, my response in 2 parts: 1) smash all states 2) They spend a lot of time thinking about it, too.
Rainsong: Thanks for participating, all. Please feel free to continue the conversation.
Rainsong: Good night