Teleportation Discussion

Note: This is a discussion rather than a how-to.

Instructor: RainTurtle
Date: October 7, 2003 (Tuesday)

<RainTurtle> Good evening, ladies and gentlemen

<RainTurtle> Tonight, we are going to discuss teleportation. Any of you here to learn how to actually do it, are in for a severe disappointment and might as well leave now

<RainTurtle> Tonight’s topic came about on a lark….I was thinking about what to run a seminar on, and decided to take a “skill” out of an rpg rulebook at random….just my luck, teleportation is the one that came up

<RainTurtle> I expect that you’ve heard of teleportation, roughly defined as a really fast way to get from Point A to Point Z without bothering to go through Points B through Y?

<RainTurtle> It may surprise some of you to learn that teleportation is actually done in the real world.

<RainTurtle> Some scientists in various labs around the world have been playing with the teleportation of photons, and some slightly larger particles, for the better part of a decade.

<Graelb> nifty

<Graelb> any successes?

<Dan> Yes.

<RainTurtle> Moving much larger things, such as coffee and humans, a la Star Trek, does not actually violate any known laws of physics (other than the uncertainty principle of quantum physics, but that was “solved” by the “Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen Effect)…the problem is merely one of engineering.

<RainTurtle> It can’t be done mechanically,…yet

<Dan> iirc – Some info was published back in the Spring in a Scientific American special edition.

<RainTurtle> *nods* Was also published in several periodicals back in 1997

<Mistyck> interesting

<Graelb> *nods*

<RainTurtle> There is still some debate was to whether the actual photon is transported, or merely a translation of that photon’s state….

<Andy_Hock> Is there a difference?

<RainTurtle> Either way, it has possibilities for very fast communications

<RainTurtle> Andy: yes, but it is at the theoretical level…far beyond my understanding

<Dan> Physically Andy, yes. practally, maybe not.

<RainTurtle> Communications are big-business, of course, so you may be assured that further investigation is underway by the physicist folks

<Graelb> of course

<RainTurtle> Questions so far?

<Mistyck> nope

<Graelb> nope

* Aphanas has a question, but it could probably wait a bit (it may be answered in the next section).

<RainTurtle> Go ahead and ask now, Aphanas….otherwise it might get lost

<Aphanas> Heh… OK. My understanding of the current state of photon teleportation (based on the PSC links), is that the teleportation process is communicated by “entangling” two photons…

<RainTurtle> That does indeed seem to be the most common explanation

<Aphanas> …which allows communication of information between the two objects…

<Dan> Not exactly.

<Aphanas> Dan, could you please elaborate? I’m not sure that I really understand the subject then, and that may affect my question.

<Dan> Ok – The particals are “entertwined” but no communications between them.

<Dan> The entertwining causes the two particles to effectively be “identical”

* Graelb ‘s heard something like this before

<Dan> One PHOTON doesn’t really carry useful information.

<Dan> However, a SERIES of photons, could…

<Graelb> rocks resonating at the same frequency miles apart

* Graelb shrugs

<Dan> You force one set into a series of states with a meaning – the entertwined (paired) particles reflect the same states, and this can be read.

<Mistyck> or seashells?

<Graelb> Maybe…. i think it was in a book by phillip pullman

<Dan> *Nods*

<Dan> Could be.

<Aphanas> OK, that would make more sense for communications systems then. My original question was, how would you “entangle” objects that are larger than particle-sized, in order to generate the effects that physics is currently seeing at the sub-atomic level with photons? i.e. – as far as I am aware, the Schroedinger’s cat example only works at a quantum level and not in the ‘real world’ to my understanding.

<Aphanas> And would it be possible to somehow “entangle” real-world objects with some psionic method?

<Dan> With current understanding in Physics, I believe you are correct.

<Mistyck> it *would be* really cool if someone could figure out a handy-dandy way to use it with psi. One that doesn’t nearly kill you

<Jael> Are the scientists using psi or other means for their current teleportation tests?

<RainTurtle> Which brings us to the next bit of the discussion

* Aphanas has actually wondered if that entangling process might be how we communicate now (what we call links).

<RainTurtle> Aphanas: interesting observation….certainly bears more consideration

<Andy_Hock> Hmmm . . .

<Andy_Hock> (Things that make you go “hmmmmm” . . . )

<RainTurtle> lol

<Dan> Concievable, but very hard to measure currently.

<RainTurtle> Teleportation of larger objects, and sometimes even living beings, has allegedly been done psionically

<Graelb> Have you seen any of these firsthand?

<RainTurtle> I say “allegedly” because I have not recently witnessed any such first-hand (and too much of my memory is missing or messed up from “not recently” to attest with certainty to earlier stuff)

* Graelb nods

<RainTurtle> However, I’ve heard accounts from otherwise credible witnesses with _nothing_ to gain and much to lose from such tales

* Graelb nods

<Graelb> sehr interessant

<RainTurtle> That said, thirty or so years ago there was a cheesy BBC science fiction series which featured a bunch of teenagers who’d suddenly acquired psionic abilities. Among those abilities was teleportation.

<Graelb> What was it called?

<RainTurtle> They had mechanical assistance in navigation, from a sentient computer, though, to keep them from accidentally rematerialising in the ground, or over the Pacific….

<RainTurtle> _The Tomorrow People_, I think it was called, Graelb

<RainTurtle> They ran re-runs of it in the late 80s

<Graelb> *writes it down* thanks

<RainTurtle> No problem

<Mistyck> wonder if they have or will have re-runs on PBS

<RainTurtle> That “navigation” bit is one of the major obvious risks in teleportation….how sure are you that you’ll “arrive” somewhere that will not kill you? Or indeed in the correct century?

<Dan> Or even in one piece…

<Graelb> Ooh time travel possablities

<Mistyck> ending up in the 16th century might be interesting

<RainTurtle> One of the more credible accounts of teleportation with which I am familiar, slipped in time slightly…

<RainTurtle> That too, Dan

<RainTurtle> (Same guy ended up in hospital, if memory serves correctly)

<Graelb> *nods*

<RainTurtle> Mistyck: Interesting, sure….as in the ancient Chinese curse “May you live in interesting times”…

<Mistyck> yep

<Dan> *nods*

<Mistyck> I wonder how many of us would be “bored” because we would have no TV, no DVDs, no Internet

<Graelb> lmao

<Mistyck> there would be books though

<Graelb> we’d have swords!

<Dan> You’d be too busy trying to stay alive…

<Graelb> rain already has one though

<Kid_Energy> that would be interesting to find out what people would do

<RainTurtle> A possible way around this is to use Katherine Kurtz’s idea of a complex and psi-intensive construct on each “end” of the journey. She called them “transfer portals”, and setting one up in her -entirely fictional- portrayals was a major undertaking…and _still_ ‘porting was not entirely safe and easy

* Mistyck has a real and functional “Highlander” hanging over her fireplace

<Graelb> hehe

<Mistyck> two-handed for lil ole’ me though

<Graelb> =)

<Aphanas> Rain, I’ve wondered about setting unique points based on Feist’s Riftworld Saga. Wizards in that (also completely fictional) series used unique engraved floor patterns to teleport to a specific location.

<Dan> *nods*

<Mistyck> and that’s amazingly similar to Katherine’s use of portals too. When was Riftworld first published?

<Dan> I believe – in that case the patterns were used to help the mind “lock onto” the coordinates.

<RainTurtle> *nods* Not entirely unlike Katherine’s portals….but they need a psychic signature to grab onto, otherwise the pattern won’t help too much

<Mistyck> ahh

<Dan> Also – sufficiently powerful “magicians” didn’t need to use the patters (Pug comes to mind).

<Aphanas> Yep, that sounds correct to me. There was also a grave danger in teleporting when tired, because if the mind didn’t “lock” onto the correct location psychically, they might find themselves in the middle of a mountain, etc.

<Graelb> 0.o

* Mistyck idly wonders how many fantasy writers were influenced by the original Star Trek series. Katherine freely admits she was influenced by it

<Graelb> did they die?

<RainTurtle> Judging strictly by what I’ve heard from people who’ve allegedly done it, the sheer amount of “energy” required would make it gravely dangerous to attempt when tired

* Kid_Energy raises hand

<Mistyck> and that leads me to ask: Did Gene Roddenberry practice psionics/was very interested in it?

<RainTurtle> For the insanely reckless, stupid or possessed-of-a-deathwish, radionics devices might be tried in place of the portal-construct

<RainTurtle> Kid?

<Graelb> why would that be insanely reckless?

<Kid_Energy> Do you think that people will ever be able to teleport with not having any problems?

<Dan> Ever is a LONG time.

<Kid_Energy> ok

<RainTurtle> And I guess it would depend on what you mean by “not having any problems”….taken at face value, that’d mean it’d have to be safer and easier than driving a car or paddling a canoe.

<Dan> And, that said – iirc – automobiles are the leading cause of death in the US….

<Mistyck> someone needs to do a controlled study on it if it hasn’t already been done (regarding people trying to teleport somewhere that is)

<RainTurtle> My point exactly, Dan

<Kid_Energy> alright

<Mistyck> are there any studies on human beings trying teleportation?

<RainTurtle> I’m unaware of any such formal studies being published

<Mistyck> ok

<RainTurtle> There are rumours of such, but unsubstantiated

<RainTurtle> Graelb: personal opinion, here, but I regard experimentation in this field, using living creatures as the subject-to-be-moved, to be insanely reckless….at least until consistent results are obtained moving inanimate objects

<Graelb> 0.o

<Graelb> *nods*

<RainTurtle> Any questions?

<Andy_Hock> Nope.

<Graelb> nope

* Aphanas raises hand…

<Aphanas> 🙂

<Mistyck> nope, thanks for indulging my curiousity

<RainTurtle> No worries

<RainTurtle> Aphanas?

<Aphanas> I was wondering if it would be OK to bring another completely reckless topic into the conversation, as it may shed some light on theoretical teleportation?

<RainTurtle> Sure, if there are no further questions on teleportation first?

* Dan notes it wouldn’t be the first time this may have happened…

<RainTurtle> Dan notes correctly

<Mistyck> 🙂

<RainTurtle> Go ahead, Aphanas

<Jael> It sounds like the scientists are _not_ using psi at this point?

<RainTurtle> Some are, Jael.

<Aphanas> Rain, you mentioned an odd thing with your phasing experience once, that your clothes phased with you into a chair… that may indicate that your psionic frame of mine considered your clothes as part of “you”…

<RainTurtle> *nods* Likely so

<Graelb> or that it isn’t just YOU that phases, rather your field and everything within

<Aphanas> I’m wondering if that could be considered another type of “entangling”… If that kind of thing is possible (not safe, but possible), it might indicate a place to start with teleportation, by trying to entangle two inanimate objects together, and then see if you could move one to the other.

<Mistyck> interesting notion, Aphanas

<Graelb> *nods*

<Aphanas> Not quite sure how you would figure out if they were entangled, but I thought that might be a place to start investigating for the curious.

<RainTurtle> quite so. I don’t know if it would work, obviously, but it sounds possible

<Graelb> i don’t quite get it though

<Graelb> if you phase two object together they’re already in the same place

<Graelb> so you couldn’t move them

<RainTurtle> Entangle, or otherwise connect them psionically, not phase them, Graelb…if I understood his musing correctly

<Graelb> Oh, ok *got it now*

<Aphanas> Graelb, the objects wouldn’t be phased together (Rain and her clothes weren’t), they would be linked psionically.

<Aphanas> Thanks, Rain.

<Graelb> try it rain! hehe

* Graelb kidding

Some useful reading on the subject of teleportation: (not active)

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