Rogers/Kelly Style Radionics

Instructor: Rainsong
Date: January 21, 2017 (Saturday)

<Rainsong> Incidentally, we’re approaching the bottom of the hour. Is anyone interested in a seminar?

<Dakaran> Doing well here. Thanks.

<Rainsong> 🙂

<Dakaran> I am interested in a lecture, but I am out of topics. I think I just need to stop being lazy and practice rather than learn new things to try.

<Rainsong> Fair enough

<Rainsong> I could ramble on about Rogers/Kelly style radionics, if that sounds interesting

<Dakaran> I was not aware that there were different styles of radionics. This does indeed sound interesting.

<Rainsong> As you know, “radionics” refers to the use of tools and machines to assist in or strengthen psionics.

<Rainsong> The tools can, in theory, be anything from patterns on paper and shards of crystal to complicated electronics.

<Rainsong> The Rogers/Kelly style involves machines that have pairs of dials. For detection and analysis, it’s not necessary to plug the machine in. For affecting things with the machine, it’s considered necessary to use electricity.

<Rainsong> You’ll notice I say “considered”.

<Rainsong> It actually isn’t. As Uncle Chuckie points out in one of his Youtube videos, you _could_ just write the appropriate rates and the target’s name/description on a piece of paper, and work with that, and get the same results… Depends on how your individual mind works.

<Rainsong> Anyway…

<Rainsong> This is an American system.

<Rainsong> Therefore, it’s largely used for agricultural purposes.

<Rainsong> For example, a farmer can use one of these machines (either with the stick pad or with a pendulum), to determine what needs to be added to his/her soil, and in what quantities.

<Rainsong> In this way, s/he can save huge amounts of money by not over-buying chemicals, and save crops that otherwise would “underperform”

<Rainsong> In my opinion, the Rogers/Kelly system is easier in many ways than the methods Chuck describes.

<Rainsong> Why? Because most of the hard work has already been done for you.

<Johngault22> good night all.

<Rainsong> You just open the published book of rates, find the rate for what you’re doing, dial it in, turn it on, and let it run for the appropriate amount of time.

<Dakaran> Good night.

<Rainsong> Good night, JohnGault

* Johngault22 Quit (Quit: )

<Dakaran> What do you mean by rates?

<Rainsong> Sure, you probably will need to dowse the treatment time, but still, that’s pretty simple.

<Rainsong> Dakaran: excellent question.

<Rainsong> Simple version: the rate is the set of numbers that serve as a sort of energetic “code” to shape and program the “energy” stuff being sent out…

<Rainsong> …or to nab the right signal line to analyse a specific aspect of the target

<Rainsong> The radionic “rate” is a bit like the “coordinates” of remote viewing

* rowinha has joined #psc_annex

<Rainsong> Each dial on a radionics machine is “tuned” to part of the rate

<Rainsong> Hi, Rowinha

* Rayn_ has joined #psc_annex

<Rainsong> For example, a two-dial machine might have a rate of 25.6–32.4 for snail eggs

<Rainsong> Hi, Rayn

<Rayn_> Hey, Rainsong.

<Rainsong> Good to “see” you 🙂

<Rainsong> So, you’d tune the first dial to 25.6 and the second to 32.4…

<Rayn_> Same here.

<Rainsong> …and then you’d either use the analysis dial and a stick-pad or pendulum to determine the viability of the eggs, or how long they need to hatch… or you’d put in a second set of rates in the other (or one of the other) pair/s of dials to set “what you want to do with” the eggs

<Rainsong> Most models of this style of machine have at least two pairs of dials. And some have as many as 12.

<Rainsong> Mine has two

<Rainsong> Each dial also has an on/off switch. Only turn on the ones you’re using.

<Rainsong> The analysis dial is separate from the pairs.

<Rainsong> You turn it while you rub the stick pad or let the pendulum swing, and it indicates number or minutes or “percentage of full strength” or whatever else you might want to determine in numerical form.

<Rainsong> You just concentrate on what your question is while you turn the dial slowly. It’s a type of dowsing.

<Dakaran> That sounds like you would get more accurate answers than normal dousing. It seems strange that anything has a specific “rate” that works with it. I thought that most magick (excepting kabbalists) symbolism worked through the connotations of the magician.

<Rainsong> Quite a few years ago, one of the agricultural uses of radionics was tried in the Canadian Province of New Brunswick, in a scientific study. There was a problem with spruce budworms. It’s a cyclical problem in this part of the world. So they marked off a checkerboard pattern on a map of a tract of woodland infested with the critters…

<Rainsong> …and used radionics to “treat” half of the squares. There was no other difference between the squares of land. Spruce budworm activity was markedly decreased in the treated areas.

<Rainsong> Unfortunately, the owner of the tract of land owns a major pesticide company, and didn’t exactly proclaim the results to the world. You’d have to wade through parliamentary and provincial legislature records to find it.

<Rainsong> Dakaran: yep, it’s weird. And you’re right: usually symbolism in magick works better if the connotations are particular to -or at least recognised by- the magician. I have no _idea_ why radionics works this way.

<Rayn_> Connotation is actually objective.

<Rayn_> That is why.

<Dakaran> It’s cool that there has been scientific tests that prove something like this. Also, big businesses are the devil. >.<

<Rayn_> For example, 1 and I both reference the concept of a number 1, or we can place things in a category where a connotation is what is necessary for that thing to be called that.

<Rainsong> Hmm. Good point, Rayn

<Rayn_> This means a system will have a consistent connotation as defined lexically.

<Rayn_> We are speaking the same language, for example.

<Rainsong> And this system of radionics has been in use for decades, for more widely than you’d expect, all using the same books of rates

* Rayn_ nods

<Rayn_> It is much like a standard that produces similar machines.

<Rainsong> So, to continue your analogy, it’d be like speaking Esperanto.

* Rayn_ nods

<Rainsong> (An agreed-upon constructed language, instead of something that “evolved” naturally)

<Dakaran> That makes sense seeing it as a cultural construct, but I don’t understand why 25.6 would directly point to snail eggs.

< Rayn_> Dakaran, it is like how snail eggs points directly to snail eggs.

< Rayn_> The phrase is referencing the object.

< Rayn_> It is a level of abstraction which is intrinsic in all languages, and language is symbolic.

< Rayn_> If you have snail eggs in front of you, and you said those snail eggs, that phrase is referencing the snail eggs in front of you. It is pointing to them.

< Rayn_> As far as how it does this via radionics, well, you can think of the referencing and pointing as directing something.

* Rayn_ is not sure where Rainsong went

< Dakaran> That makes a little more sense. Doesn’t this mean that the original numbering scheme would be completely random?

<Dakaran> Furthermore, wouldn’t it be easier to have one dial and a few pieces of paper with the words you are trying to scan for instead of more dials?

<Rainsong> hiho. Sorry. Minor technical difficulties

<Dakaran> WB Rainsong

<December> wb rainsong

<Rainsong> thanks

<Rayn_> Not random. Arbitrary. Random implies there is an equal likelihood of characters being thrown together. Arbitrary means that people decided on them without deriving it from anything.

<Dakaran> Hi December.

<December> hi love

<Rayn_> Subjective implies inconsistent.

<Rainsong> (The last bit I see from before everything here went pear-shaped was Dakaran’s comment about not understanding why 25.6 would directly point to snail eggs…for the record, it was a hypothetical example.)

<Rayn_> Welcome back, Rainsong.

<Rainsong> Thank you

<December> snails lay eggs?

<December> are they fertilised outside the body or within?

<Rainsong> The rates in the books were determined by what is called “cold scanning”: someone concentrated on the “topic” (snail eggs, in our fictional example) while turning a dial with one hand and either rubbing a stick-pad or dangling a pendulum. Whatever number they arrived at was recorded.

<Rainsong> Snails do indeed lay eggs. And they are fertilised internally. Sometimes they are “mutually fertilised” depending on the species, as many of them are both male and female

<December> yay for learning!

<Rainsong> 🙂

<Rainsong> <Dakaran> Furthermore, wouldn’t it be easier to have one dial and a few pieces of paper with the words you are trying to scan for instead of more dials? — You can do it that way. And that’s the standard procedure in one of the other styles.

<Rainsong> Yet another style doesn’t bother with “rates” at all. They just have parts of the machine you stick cards in or on, and the cards have either pictures or descriptions printed/drawn on them

<Rainsong> Comments? Questions?

<Dakaran> No, I am still slightly confused at why the rates matter instead of just deciding “I think this should be 52”.

<Rainsong> *shrugs* Honestly, there’s a good chance that’d work.

<Rayn_> Dakaran, someone did the work for you already.

<Rayn_> If someone cold scanned and linked a pointer of snail eggs to 25.2, this means you don’t have to do that, because it is already linked.

<Rayn_> If you decide to make it 52, you would have to create that connection yourself.

<Dakaran> So, linking them builds a connection greater than a simple symbol or numerical identifier?

<Rayn_> If we assume, it is an arbitrary association, then they’ve already created the thing for you to use so you don’t have to reinvent the wheel. If we assume they observed it, you don’t have to look for it, again.

<Rayn_> We’re not recreating language during this conversation. We could decide to switch the meaning of blue and red and still be able to communicate within our own system, but is it practical?

<Rainsong> More like, if I tell you that “hundo” means “dog” in Esperanto, I’m telling you about two concepts that are already linked. If I instead tell you that in my very own constructed language invented for imaginary giant rabbit tax accountants that “plishcnick” means “dog”, then I have both invented a link between the two concepts and told you about said link.

<Rainsong> Inventing the language is a _lot_ more work than learning one.

<Rayn_> Dakaran, in software technology, we call these libraries.

<Rayn_> So, the approach radionics takes is pretty much used with technology at large.

<Rainsong> If you’re curious, here’s the Kelly book of rates:

<Rainsong> They also have an electronic database, but the book is free, while the electronic database is not

<Rayn_> But, I am enjoying this lecture. As of now, I am trying to build psychic robots and this is giving me ideas.

<Rainsong> Excellent. 😀

* December Quit (Client exited)

<Dakaran> I think I understand it now. Assuming the numbers are just symbolic links, it would be more work than it was worth to try to keep a catalogue of numbers?

<Dakaran> Than it would be to use a pre-existing catalogue?

<Rainsong> *nods* _However_, that is what is done in some other styles. And you can cold-scan for any item that doesn’t appear in the book, so you’re not out of luck if you need something specific and a bit out in left field

<Rainsong> In a lot of ways, using a rate from a pre-existing book is like using a pre-made sigil from a grimoire…but with rather less drawing skill required

<Rayn_> It is pretty nifty in that it makes accessible to people things that require more skill than they have.

<Rainsong> *nods*

<Dakaran> Thanks, both of you, for explaining that.

<Rayn_> Dakaran, I will give you an example of what I do. I hope it helps and does not confuse.

<Rayn_> I tend to clairvoyantly scan for things, like fire, and link them to sigils. The sigil is linked to me making the connection between actual fire and that symbol.

<Rayn_> So, say you decided to draw this on a card and put it in a radionic machine. You know have access to that without having to have made it.

<Rayn_> now*

<Dakaran> You have access to the link to fire through the sigil card without having to make the fire?

<Rayn_> Yeah.

<Rayn_> It will point to fire.

<Rayn_> As in fire in that candle.

<Rayn_> Well, on top of the candle.

<Rayn_> But, that is not radionic conventional but the concept broadly applies.

<Rayn_> Pretty much, it is a machine.

<Rainsong> In a side note: if you’re using a sample of something (soil from a specific field, for example, to keep this legal for the Americans among us)…be sure not to touch the inside of the test-tube you put the soil in, and wipe down the outside of the tube, before putting it on the machine. Otherwise, your own skin oils will connect you to the sample. That can be inconvenient, both for analysis (what do you mean the soil needs more chocolate?!) and for treatment (that beetle repellent probably isn’t good for you).

<Rainsong> And pictures should be put in glassine envelopes (the kind stamp collectors use) for much the same reason

<Rayn_> lol

<Rayn_> At soil needs more chocolate.

<Rainsong> 🙂

<Dakaran> lol

<Rainsong> I think it might be useful for me to give an example of actual use. Please be aware that my example is not entirely legal in several countries, including the USA.

* Amaranth has joined #psc_annex

<Rainsong> Hi, Amaranth

<Amaranth> hello

* Rayn_ is now known as Rayn_semihere

<Amaranth> how are you?

<Rainsong> Example, using two-dial machine: A member of my extended family has a particular medical condition, and there is a rate in the book for several of the symptoms of it. We’ll pretend that the rate for one of those symptoms is 64.3-21.8

<Rainsong> Amaranth: doing well, thanks. You?

<Amaranth> i’m great. Dont let me interrupt convo

<Rainsong> So, I turn the dial on the left side of the first pair to 64.3 and the dial on the right side to 21.8.

<Rainsong> I put a picture of said family member in the “witness” or “target” box of the machine.

<Rainsong> then, I rub the stick-pad while turning the analysis dial while thinking “How many minutes should the treatment last?”

<Rainsong> let’s say the indicator stops me at “3”, so three minutes it is.

<Rainsong> I push the switch for the first set of dials to “on” and set a stop watch for three minutes

<Rainsong> At the end of the three minutes, I press the switch to “off”

<Rainsong> At that point, I can either return the dials to “zero” and remove the picture from the witness box, or leave them as is all ready for the next treatment. The amount of time for the treatment is re-dowsed each time.

<Rainsong> the

<Rainsong> The “treatment time” is obviously not relevant for analysis work. Only for affecting things.

<Rainsong> Questions? Comments?

<Dakaran> This feels like a dumb question, but I’m assuming you have to push some psi at it.

<Rainsong> That’s another weird thing. No, you don’t

<Rainsong> Granted, I generally _do_ push psi through it, because I tend not to use electronic versions.

<Rainsong> And, I presume that the connection between you and the “process of working the machine” results in putting some of your psi-stuff into the equation…

<Rainsong> but there’s no pushing psi-stuff as part of the normal procedure

<Rainsong> When this is taught as a weekend course to farmers, they don’t do anything at all with manipulating psi-stuff, other than using weird little squared spirals of copper wire for adjusting inconvenient flows of “stuff” that might be detected in the farmer’s field (field, as in the place s/he plants crops, in this case)

<Rainsong> You _do_ need to focus and concentrate on what you’re doing, while you’re doing it. Not while waiting for the stop watch to get to the end of the treatment time, though

<Rainsong> So, yea, perfectly legitimate question, Dakaran

<Dakaran> Yay!

<Dakaran> So concentrate during set up and watch the clock hit zero?

<Rainsong> Yep

<Dakaran> lol, the second listing in the book is abdomen hemorrhage. Have you ever been able to make someone bleed with this?

<Rainsong> And you can shove psi-stuff through it if you want to, but that’s optional

<Rainsong> I’ve only played with the Kelly system a little bit so far. Took a course in agricultural radionics about a year ago.

<Rainsong> To make someone bleed, you’d reverse the rate. so, that’s another excellent question. Yay, Dakaran

<Rainsong> To reverse a rate, subtract the number from 100 (if it’s a 0-100 system, as Kelly is) or from 10 (if it’s a 0-10), or from 6 if it’s base-6….you get the idea. The resultant number is the reversed rate.

<Dakaran> Lol, I didn’t expect that to be taken seriously. Thank you for the yay.

<Rainsong> 🙂

<Rainsong> Seriously, there are people who _do_ routinely use radionics machines (most often this system) to kill insects, rather than just drive them off.

<Rainsong> If you can kill a couple thousand tent caterpillars or locusts, making one person bleed or suffer some other sort of injury is not exactly implausible…

<Rainsong> and other aspects of psionics _have_ been used to deliberately injure people

<Rainsong> (that’s aside from the accidental stuff I’m going off about so often)

<Dakaran> Just in case of random acts of abdominal bleeding, I was not actually planning on trying this particular example. Thank you for the warning, I will make sure I only use my radionics for good, or at least not inflict suffering on others.

<Rainsong> The rates listed for medical conditions in that book are for _treating_ the condition. Not for causing it.

<Rainsong> That’s why you’d need to reverse the rate to cause the bleeding

<Rainsong> And, I’ll repeat, for the record, that using radionics for medical purposes is illegal in the USA, except as “experimental” treatment on oneself (as far as I understand the relevant law, anyway….I’m neither a lawyer nor a physician… nor even American… so this warning is not meant as formal legal advice.)

<Dakaran> They even have radionics for projection. I might have fun with this.

<Rainsong> Yep, lots of fun stuff.

<Dakaran> I am not going to use it on anyone else. No one I know would want me to try even if they believed it was real.

<Rainsong> I’d suggest pushing some psi-stuff through your project, if you’re doing the “write the rate and the symbol/name/picture of the target on a piece of paper” approach, rather than using a machine, electronic or otherwise

<Dakaran> I will try that.

<Dakaran> As a side note, I actually felt like my legs were moving during one of my practice projections.

<Rainsong> If you feel like building a machine, send me an email sometime I’d I’ll send you my layout….print it out, glue it to a sturdy box of cardboard or wood, and drill the holes for the switches and dials. Cheap switches and dials can be purchased on eBay or the like

<Rainsong> “sometime and I’ll send…”

<Rainsong> Ahh, cool. That’s probably a good sign, the feeling of movement. I often feel as though my body is moving, even though it isn’t, when I project. No idea how common it is, though.

<Rainsong> (Pre-made Kelly/Rogers style machines are easily available, but they cost mucho dinaro)

<Dakaran> Thanks for the offer. I will probably try easily disposable paper radionics tests before I make a cardboard one. The expensive machines sound like a waste of money to me.

<Rainsong> Makes sense. Why not start with the friendly convenient versions?

<Dakaran> Friendly convenient version? I just meant that I would want something that wasn’t bulky and could easily be replaced if I had to quickly dispose of it.

<Rainsong> The expensive machines (or a home-made one made of the same kinds of materials… at which point you might as well buy one) make sense for a professional farmer who uses the thing out in the dirt and wind and rain of his or her farm. It just holds up better.

<Rainsong> Friendly convenient version: pieces of paper, with or without dials made of paper or plastic and pins or brads

<Rainsong> If you haven’t seen it already – and it is a different system – take a look at Chuck’s radionic notebook

<Dakaran> I didn’t think about using it in rough weather. I just assumed everyone would be using the devices in their basement.


<Rainsong> The farmers tend to carry theirs out into the fields, rather than going out and bringing the samples back to their basements, apparently. On the other hand, some practitioners who work _on behalf of_ farmers doing everything from their home offices, and might be in a different state/province or even a different country from their clients

<Rainsong> One of these guys is so sure of his skill that he requests that his clients not pay him until they see the successful result of his efforts

<Dakaran> Wow.

<Rainsong> And yea, he’s made a good living of it.

<Dakaran> That sounds like the easiest job ever.

<Rainsong> Maybe so

<Rainsong> To be fair, it takes some people six months or more of daily practice to get really good at agricultural radionics.

<Rainsong> And some catch on in a matter of hours.

<Rainsong> As with many psionic skills, how long it takes to get good at it has _no_ bearing on how good at it the person will be

<Rainsong> The instructor for the course I took caught on almost immediately, when he learned how to do it, a few decades back. His dad took six or seven months. His dad was better at it than him.

<Rayn_semihere> Hmmmm…

<Rayn_semihere> Rainsong, have you heard of the swimmer’s illusion?

<Dakaran> That is surprising.

<Rainsong> Rayn: no, I have not

<Rayn_semihere> swimmer’s body illusion*

<Dakaran> I’m going to go now. Have a great week.

<Rainsong> *consults Google-sensei

<Rayn_semihere> lol

<Rayn_semihere> See you, Dakaran.

<Rainsong> be well, Dakaran

<Rainsong> Have a great week

* Dakaran Quit (Quit: Leaving)

<Rayn_semihere> Rainsong, pretty much it goes that competitive swimmer’s have excellent physiques because they swim.

<Rayn_semihere> So, to have a nice body, you should swim.

<Rayn_semihere> It is a causation issue caused by confusing selection factors for results.

<Rayn_semihere> In reality, they are competitive swimmer’s because of the body they have. It plays a role in selection factors.

<Rainsong> *nods*

<Rayn_semihere> I think psi is the same.

<Rainsong> And the instructor’s dad learned radionics because he was a farmer and heard of the results other people were having (the instructor himself is a physician, but restricts his radionic practice to agriculture)

<Rainsong> That said, yes, I agree with you to a large extent

<Rayn_semihere> I’m working on linking a psychokinetic construct to an application that controls temperature.

<Rainsong> Hmm. That sounds useful

<Rayn_semihere> I love sci fi where they have societies with psionic technology.

<Rayn_semihere> So, I am working on making it a reality.

<Rainsong> Sounds like a plan

<Rainsong> In your part of the world, I imagine that most of the usefulness of your construct is in lowing temperature and humidex?

<Rayn_semihere> Just temperature right now, because that is easy. But, yeah.

<Rayn_semihere> Are you familiar with using microPK to manipulate particle decay?

<Rainsong> *nods*

<Rayn_semihere> Here is something you might find interesting.

<Rayn_semihere> Are you familiar with muons?

<Rayn_semihere> Just what they are.

<Rainsong> Familiar? No. Heard of? Yes

<Rayn_semihere> It is an elementary particle. It is like an electron but more massive.

<Rayn_semihere> Here is the interesting thing. Muons can decay and become electrons, but muons are not made of electrons.

<Rayn_semihere> Pretty much, you have statistical states which determine the configuration of properties particles have. When muons decay, based on statistical properties called flavors, they turn into electrons.

<Rainsong> *nods* And that makes about as much sense to me as radionics working without pushing psi-stuff through it…which is to say, “not much”

* Rayn_semihere is getting to the interesting part

<Rayn_semihere> So, pretty much, one particle turns into another based on statistical properties tied to conservation laws. When people use micro PK to manipulate decay rates of things, they are skewing these laws which means they could turn a muon into any particle they wanted.

<Rayn_semihere> We know they do this, because we have experiments doing it, and based on this, you could transmute particles.

<Rayn_semihere> Cool, right?

<Rainsong> Decidedly so

<Rayn_semihere> There are a lot of cool things with psi. I wish people looked more into it.

<Rainsong> Agreed.

<Rayn_semihere> But, pretty much, this would imply you could make decay of harmful radioactive things harmless.

<Rayn_semihere> When I have time, I want to mess around with isotopes.

<Rainsong> And there are people who claim to have done this with relatively simple radionic devices, actually.

* Rayn_semihere nods

<Rainsong> You’re aware of the accidental discovery Peebrain and JoeT (both of PsiPog) made with a Geiger Counter, vis-a-vis macroPK, yes?

<Rayn_semihere> Vaguely.

<Rayn_semihere> You will probably have to tell me about it.

<Rainsong> A Geiger counter that had been running for an unrelated reason picked up a spike in “activity” while one of them was attempting to spin a psi-wheel. But it only picks up the spike, when someone is struggling to move the thing and emotions are involved

<Rayn_semihere> Yeah, I recall that now.

<Rainsong> We bought a Geiger counter of the same make and model, and duplicated the effect here.

<Rainsong> We don’t know, at this time, whether it is an artifact of the make and model of counter, because the research has been self-funded and sporadic so far.

<Rayn_semihere> Rainsong, does psychokinesis cause a strain on you?

<Rainsong> The spike we got (repeatedly) went from a sustained background radiation that hovered around 34 to a sudden spike for a couple seconds at around 85.

<Rayn_semihere> I tried something similar and I got similar results, if that helps, lol

<Rayn_semihere> Precognition, too.

<Rainsong> Thanks for that data. It’s useful information.

<Rainsong> As for your question about strain,… *waggles hand*… yes, but it varies with what I’m doing.

<Rayn_semihere> One thing I cannot figure out about myself is why I am so much stronger than others…

<Rayn_semihere> To be honest, it freaks me out, so I subconsciously place limits on myself.

<Rayn_semihere> But, they don’t impact me negatively.

<Rainsong> On one hand, lifting a canoe resulted in my collapsing to the sand and needing to rest and have some fruit juice (always carried some juice boxes in my pack) before I could stand again.

<Rayn_semihere> I want your opinion.

<Rainsong> Lifting a largish ~80lb rock just felt strange.

<Rayn_semihere> My first instance of teleporting an object was when I did something with someone naked DarkTiger.

<Rayn_semihere> named*

<Rayn_semihere> Not naked XD

<Rainsong> lol

<Rainsong> Typos for the win

<Rayn_semihere> I was able to teleport half of a crayon pencil.

<Rayn_semihere> I’ve started to try more times of late and my geisting has starting to include things randomly teleporting.

<Rayn_semihere> Here is what I want your opinion on.

<Rainsong> That sounds inconvenient

<Rayn_semihere> Say we don’t take into consideration my apparent freakish stamina. Say I could do it and I did not seem to have this weird stamina.

<Rayn_semihere> How do you think it would impact me in regards to strain?

<Rayn_semihere> <Rainsong> Lifting a largish ~80lb rock just felt strange. ←- I’ve lifted myself in 2007, and I was roughly 140lbs at the time. I was freaked out by it and one reason was that whenever I saw this on TV, it caused some mental strain. Like Jean in the 90’s X-Men.

<Rainsong> My guess is that it would likely affect you the way it affects me, seeing as I no longer have much in the way of stamina and it does appear to be a limiting factor

<Rayn_semihere> I did not experience that, and that freaked me out.

<Rayn_semihere> So, it is not different in mechanic but different in something idiosyncratic to me, you would say?

<Rainsong> I’ll point out for the record that the X-Men storyline has the allegedly “most powerful telepath in the world” voluntarily living near New York City.

* Nevyn twitches a bit at that

<Rayn_semihere> lol

<Nevyn> my scotch budget isn’t enough for that…

<Rayn_semihere> I am from New York City.

<Rayn_semihere> I miss it.

<Rainsong> Judging by what I could do at various times in my life, I would suggest that stamina is indeed a limiting factor, so if you have very good stamina, it makes sense that such activities would not be particularly stressful for you

<Rayn_semihere> JoeT popped in and apparently he stopped PK because he said it did something to his heart.

<Rayn_semihere> He popped in a few months ago. The conversation made me think of that.

<Rainsong> Ahhh

<Nevyn> I teleported my keys about a month ago…didn’t notice any odd strain from it

<Nevyn> though, to be fair, I was on my way to a float session so maybe it all just balanced out

<Rainsong> The weaker I am physically, the less I can do. By contrast, significant brain damage did nothing to by psionic ability… affecting only my capacity to concentrate and focus.

<Rainsong> to my psionic, that is

<Rayn_semihere> If you don’t mind me asking, brain damage from what?

<Rainsong> Sequelae of anaphylactic shock and the medical treatment thereof. My family physician presumes, from the symptom set and after-effects that the epinephrine caused a stroke

<Rayn_semihere> I am sorry to hear that.

<Rainsong> Thank you

<Rayn_semihere> On the subject of teleportation, I wonder what would happen if you teleported something into the past.

<Rainsong> How would you know it got there?

<Nevyn> Rainsong: because 10 minutes prior you’d go “OOOO M&M!”?

<Rayn_semihere> Rainsong, that is the fun of trying to figure out what would happen.

<Rayn_semihere> lol

<Rainsong> 😀

<Rainsong> Actually….

<Rainsong> I’ve probably mentioned the school-chum who used to teleport?

<Rayn_semihere> Yeah.

<Rainsong> (Usual disclaimer: I never saw him do so, but I have reason to believe the witnesses and the school-chum are reliable reporters)

<Rainsong> He was said to have teleported back in time. Just a very short amount of time. Something like 35 or 40 seconds.

<Rainsong> His parents saw this happen, and were pretty freaked out by it.

<Rayn_semihere> I wish I could teleport myself.

<Rayn_semihere> Rainsong, that is interesting, though.

<Rainsong> He was literally in two places at once for a very short period of time.

* Rayn_semihere nods

<Rayn_semihere> That is why I can’t teleport myself.

<Rainsong> Therefore, I believe that teleportation back in time is possible.

<Rayn_semihere> My consciousness cannot wrap its head around two different histories like that, so it rejects it which makes it so I can’t form the intention properly.

<Rainsong> *nods*

<Rayn_semihere> I also believe I would have a similar issue with trying to teleport something with consciousness.

<Nevyn> Rayn: how about teleporting yourself a couple second into the future to prevent that?

<Rainsong> School-chum had trouble wrapping his head around doing anything psionic at all. _Other people_ did that. Not nice pastor’s-kids

<Rayn_semihere> I’ve tried that. My mind does not like it.

<Nevyn> just to somewhere you could reach in that time frame to prevent the weird history shit…then branch out

<Rayn_semihere> Oh.

<Rayn_semihere> True.

<Rayn_semihere> I could do that.

<Nevyn> get the process down before you decide to break reality 😉

<Rayn_semihere> It’s always the pastor’s kids.

<Rayn_semihere> Here is the other thing. I am scared of winding up somewhere without my insides.

<Rayn_semihere> When trying to teleport a ball, I somehow teleported away the insides.

<Rainsong> I can respect that. It’s a perfectly reasonable thing to be afraid of

<Rayn_semihere> The ball did not move, so I thought I failed, until I picked it up and discovered it was lighter.

<Rainsong> Teleportation isn’t exactly a safe hobby

<Nevyn> my worry is ending up in a different reality

<Rayn_semihere> It was a softball.

<Nevyn> hmm….note to self, only teleport when carrying…

<Rainsong> Nevyn: yea, after that time I “faded out” and seemed to be “between” several realities, I can also understand that worry. I needed help to “get back to” this one.

<Nevyn> Rainsong: I’ve had to help someone with that before, thus the worry

<Rayn_semihere> My mind does not like that, so it just rejects it, though, I’ll try Nevyn’s suggestions.

<Rayn_semihere> It is like I am here in this reality. The fact is I am here. In another reality. The fact is I am there. I am trying to make real the later reality while I have most of myself in the former one.

<Rainsong> *nods* I was fortunate that two of the witnesses that time were already aware if my “phasing” problem.

<Rayn_semihere> My mind goes fuck this, nope, you will stay here.

<Rayn_semihere> But, I have no problem for doing this with objects.

<Rainsong> lol

<Rayn_semihere> for=with*

<Nevyn> Rainsong: handy. right now the only time I’d be able to do any of those tests is when I’m visiting a specific group of friends out of state

<Nevyn> a few people around me know what I do, but they themselves don’t practice so wouldn’t be a ton of help

<Rayn_semihere> To say it concisely, you could say I seem to perform teleportation by making it so that the only outcome that could happen is something being in a different location.

<Rayn_semihere> It can only be wherever I am teleporting it to, so there it is.

<Rainsong> Rayn: That’s consistent with what I thought your usual approach to affective psionics was

<Rayn_semihere> Pretty much, yeah.

<Rainsong> Nevyn: Theoretically, you could try it here, if you manage to swing a visit…

<Rayn_semihere> Nevyn, which is why I found Tommy Oblivion a fascinating character from Nightside.

<Rayn_semihere> lol

<Nevyn> Rainsong: true

<Rayn_semihere> He seemed to teleport like that.

<Rainsong> Of course, that’d still be “friends out of state”

<Nevyn> so two specific groups of friends 😛

<Rainsong> lol

<Rayn_semihere> So, what is the state of things when they are among histories I wonder…

<Rayn_semihere> Rainsong, you know there is a character from Naruto that phases through things by performing half teleportations, lol

<Rayn_semihere> Obito

<Rainsong> I did not know that. I’ve _heard_ of Naruto, but know nothing about that anime

<Rayn_semihere> You can mute the music if it bothers you:

<Rayn_semihere> He is the guy with the masks

<Rayn_semihere> They figure out his trick and hit him in the other dimension he goes to by teleporting attacks.

<Rayn_semihere> The guy with white hair is teleporting their attacks to hit the guy who phases by teleportation.

<Rayn_semihere> The conversation just reminded me of that.

<Rainsong> Ahh, thanks for the link

<Rainsong> We’d speculated about using phasing (deliberately) into the “between places” place in order to teleport. Never tried it, though

<Rayn_semihere> Naruto’s father teleports, too. There is a fight between Naruto’s father and Obito too:


<Rayn_semihere> They both teleport, so the fight was interesting.

<Nevyn> Rainsong: do you read Brandon Sanderson?

<Rayn_semihere> Obito can fully teleport himself or half teleport himself to phase.

<Rainsong> Nevyn: No, I was not familiar with his work. Looks like it could be interesting

<Nevyn> k. in his Epic fantasy series (Stormlight Archive) they talk about an inbetween place called “Shadesmar” that can be used for teleportation

<Rainsong> (Speaking of reading, though, I started downloading a bunch of declassified CIA documents related to StarGate. According to one of them, the American parapsychology journals will refuse to publish any study whose results are “too good”)

<Rainsong> HMm. Interesting

<Rayn_semihere> Charles T. Tart said because of a lot of orders they are under including treason stuff.

<Rainsong> IT’s caused some “friction” with the French researchers, apparently

<Nevyn> got a link to those?

* Rayn_semihere is going to shower and then has homework to do

<Rayn_semihere> I’ll be as my name says, though.

<Rainsong> Have a good time, and a lovely week, if we don’t “see” you back here before heading offline.

<Rainsong> Great to chat with you

<Rainsong> Nevyn: I’ll have to email it to you on Monday.

<Nevyn> okies

<Rainsong> CAme across it at work, and the link is sitting on my desktop there.

<Rainsong> But in the meantime, if you feel like wading through the publicly available StarGate materials on their site….

<Nevyn> knew about that one

<Rainsong> The link I have is also for the reading room, but has a specific set of documents stemming from one FOIA request

<Nevyn> ahh, I’ll look around then 🙂

<ShadowRain> *ducks in* i have to leave in a bit but did you know a bunch of RV docs were declassified recently, Rainsong? i saved the link for you in case you hadnt seen it:

<Rainsong> Thanks, ShadowRain

<Rainsong> *hug*

<ShadowRain> …i just noticed it looks like you posted that earlier :p *hugs*

<Rainsong> Not the recently-declassified section – just the readingroom listing of general Star Gate materials. I didn’t have the recent link handy

<ShadowRain> ahh

<ShadowRain> I heard about it and thought of you lol

<Rainsong> 🙂

<ShadowRain> 🙂

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